Fear is OK for O'Reilly

Take a look at this transcript and tell me that the right doesn't know that they are fear peddlers and unwilling to even listen to other ideas.

Impact: Interview With Coalition for a Secure Driver's License President Amanda Bowman, Muslim Public Affairs Council National Director Ahmed Younis

GUESTS: Amanda Bowman, Ahmed Younis

O'REILLY: "Impact" Segment tonight: Perhaps the most effective ad campaign during the presidential election, whether you agree with it or not, was the swift boat vets deal. We had some problems with the attacks on John Kerry, but the ads influenced the election, no question about it. Now another ad campaign from the media group that designed the swift boat campaign, this one targeted at illegal immigration. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Every day, families all across America depend on a national security system of many interlocking pieces.

But, if one piece fails, weak state laws allow the terrorists responsible for 9/11 to get valid driver's licenses, all the identification they needed to get on flight and carry out their deadly attacks.

But, even today, in many states, there is nothing to stop a terrorist who is in this country from obtaining a legal driver's license, and, since each year, millions sneak into the U.S. illegally, our security is still in danger.

It's simply too easy for those determined to do us harm to secure the valid I.D. they need to rent cars, board airplanes and travel around the country freely and unnoticed.

If one piece fails, we al lose. To learn more, contact the Coalition for a Secure Driver's License at www.securelicense.org.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mommy, when's daddy coming home?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'REILLY: Joining us now from Washington, Amanda Bowman, the president for the Coalition for a Secure Driver's License group, and Ahmed Younis, national director of the Muslim Public Affairs Council and author of the book "American Muslims Speak the Truth."

Mr. Younis, we'll begin with you. I thought that commercial -- I got -- that's the first time I saw it, just the first time I saw it. It's brand-new. I thought it was pretty good. I thought it's pretty effective. We've got to tighten up these driver's licenses thing. Do you disagree?

AHMED YOUNIS, MUSLIM PUBLIC AFFAIRS COUNCIL: Absolutely. I think this is, at best, a shot in the dark in an honest attempt to defend the homeland, but, at worst, this is a pre-9/11 political movement or ideological movement that is articulating itself in a post-9/11 context. It's an anti-immigrant, anti-immigration agenda, and it's no different than an Islamaphobic agenda
or otherwise.

O'REILLY: Well, what specifically did you object to about the spot?

YOUNIS: Well, the spot is really not the issue. The issue is...

O'REILLY: Well, wait. Whoa, whoa, whoa. The spot is the issue here on this program. I mean, they ran a spot. It looked to me to be pretty effective, that people can now still get phony driver's licenses, come in, get on planes, do what they want to do. What's wrong with that?

YOUNIS: John Walker Lindh didn't need a driver's license to fight against the Americans in Afghanistan. Timothy McVeigh didn't need a driver's license to blow up...

O'REILLY: So, I mean, those are other issues. I mean, this issue is that driver's licenses and other forms of I.D. are way too easy to get by people who would hurt us. Have you got a problem with that?

YOUNIS: No, but I think, as Americans, we need to disagree -- or we need to look into what the effect upon our country will be, and, if you came from my state, if you came from California...

O'REILLY: Yes.

YOUNIS: Real quick, if you came from California, you would realize that the seventh largest economy in the world would crumble without the work and hard work of illegal immigrants from the Latino and Hispanic American community.

O'REILLY: All right. I heard that a million times. I don't buy it for a second.

Ms. Bowman, what are you trying to get across here? Are you trying to frighten people? What are you trying to do?

AMANDA BOWMAN, SECURE DRIVER'S LICENSE: No, we're not trying to frighten people, but what we are trying to do is to get authenticated identity behind a driver's license, and we came together -- this volunteer coalition came together after 9/11 and, in fact, includes some 9/11 families among its members, and the reason that we came together is the realization that 18 of the 19 terrorists had multiple driver's licenses.

And, in fact, this was the document that you could argue launched the attacks. It enabled terrorists to get on planes, to rent trucks, open bank accounts. It is the key sort of internal passport document in this country, and our point is that we need to make sure that we can authenticate the identity of the person carrying that document, and that's the extent of it.

O'REILLY: OK. Now, Mr. Younis, I think, thinks that this is scare tactics and it's going to demonize immigrants who are in this country legally -- or even illegally -- and put them in some kind of jeopardy or some kind of bad light. Do you think he has a point?

BOWMAN: No, I don't think he has a point. I think -- I am an immigrant to this country, so -- I've been a legal immigrant, and I've now become a citizen of the United States. So I am very pro legal immigration to the country.

What I would say, though, is that we need to make sure that we know that people who are carrying driver's licenses are who they claim to be, and this is a really big issue.

O'REILLY: Oh, absolutely, whether that's legal or illegal or American or foreign.

Now, Mr. Younis, certainly, you don't dispute the fact that the 9/11 killers used bogus documents to do their terrible deeds. Certainly, you don't dispute that, do you?

YOUNIS: No, I read the 9/11 commission report very carefully, and it's a big part of my...

O'REILLY: All right. So you should want -- you along with every other American who's got any sense should want the government to crack down on bad documents and not let people get them who don't deserve them.

YOUNIS: Sure. Absolutely. We've got to crank down on all the bad documents, but we don't...

O'REILLY: Then what's the -- what's the problem with Ms. Bowman's ad which just brings attention to the problem?

YOUNIS: Well, the problem is that she's throwing the Constitution in the trash in order to siphon out which documents are bad and which documents are good. There's absolutely no...

O'REILLY: What? What? Wait. I'm not getting this. You've got me -- I know I'm slow, all right? I know I'm slow. What Constitution in the trash? What are you objecting to here? I'm not getting it. You want -- you don't want them to mention driver's licenses?

YOUNIS: No. I don't want them to invade the privacy of Americans across this country in order to feign an attempt at counterterrorism policy that is in no way being proven.

O'REILLY: Well, how does that commercial do this? It just demands the government have a rock-solid system so that driver's licenses don't get into the hands of terrorists.

YOUNIS: Well, the commercial is scaremongering. The commercial is a soft voice that says be careful, we want to protect our country, et cetera, et cetera. Successful come on policy are elements like the national grassroots campaign to fight terrorism by Muslims. Muslims making sure that their mosques are not leveraged by saboteurs to commit acts of terrorism. That's good counterterrorism policy.

O'REILLY: Aren't you offended by the fact that Muslims are mentioned in this ad? Isn't that what this is all about, Mr. Younis?

YOUNIS: No, of course not. Of course not. I am not denying that Muslims committed 9/11. I'm not denying that the world today is a world in which Muslims are misunderstood and Muslims are in a situation in which they have been opposing or opposed the West or the United States of America. We're not running away from reality.

O'REILLY: All right.

YOUNIS: But what we're running towards is good counterterrorism policy that does not have this element of scaremongering, and I'm telling you...

O'REILLY: I think we need to be scared. I mean, I'm with Ms. Bowman and her group. I think we ought to be scared.

YOUNIS: Yes. We ought to be...

O'REILLY: The more frightened we are, the more things get done because, right now, nothing's getting done.

YOUNIS: Well, historically...

O'REILLY: Right now, it's wide open, you know, and it's three-and-a-half years after.

All right. I've got to go.

YOUNIS: But you know what, Bill?

O'REILLY: Go ahead. Real fast.

YOUNIS: In modern American history, it has been proven that scaremongering is not the way to fight terrorism and it is not the way to fight the enemy.

O'REILLY: All right. Ms. Bowman, Mr. Younis, thanks very much. We appreciate it.